Former President Barack Obama stated during an episode of his wife’s podcast this week that men should have gay friends in order to develop “empathy and kindness,” especially as they prepare to parent children who may identify as gay or non-binary.

Speaking on “IMO,” a podcast hosted by former First Lady Michelle Obama and her brother Craig Robinson, the former president joined the pair for a conversation about how to raise boys.

During the hour-long discussion, Obama emphasized the importance of boys having male role models beyond their fathers and shared how one of his college professors had a meaningful influence on him.

“No matter how good the dad is, he can’t be everything, and then that boy may need somebody to give the boy some perspective on the dad,” Obama said.

“One of the most valuable things I learned as a guy was I had a gay professor in college, at a time when the gay folks still weren’t out, who became one of my favorite professors and was a great guy and would call me out when I started saying stuff that was ignorant,” he added.

Obama went on to suggest that men benefit from having gay friends and mentors like his professor, noting they can help men “learn positive personality traits.”

“You need that to show empathy and kindness,” he said. “And by the way, you need that person in your friend group, so that if you then have a boy who’s gay or non-binary or whatever, they have somebody that they can go, ‘OK, I’m not alone in this.’”

In his 2020 memoir *A Promised Land*, Obama wrote about the impact of Lawrence Goldyn, his gay European politics professor at Occidental College.

“Once I got to college and became friends with fellow students and professors who were openly gay, though, I realized the overt discrimination and hate they were subject to, as well as the loneliness and self-doubt that the dominant culture imposed on them,” he wrote. “I felt ashamed of my past behavior — and learned to do better.”

Barack and Michelle Obama also addressed widespread online speculation about the state of their marriage, responding to the rumors with humor.

“She took me back!” Barack Obama joked during the podcast. “It was touch and go for a while.”

Michelle Obama’s absence from high-profile public events, including President Donald Trump’s inauguration and the funeral of former President Jimmy Carter, had sparked rumors that her relationship with Barack Obama was strained. While she had previously responded to the speculation in other interviews, this was the first time the couple publicly discussed it together, according to Fox News.

“It’s my husband, ya’ll!” Michelle Obama said at the start of the podcast. “When we aren’t \[in the same room], folks think we’re divorced.”

Craig Robinson added that the rumors had become so widespread that a woman in Kansas once asked him, “What did he do?” in reference to Barack Obama. He said she appeared relieved to learn the rumors were false.

Barack Obama admitted he had not been aware of the gossip, saying he typically avoids participating in online chatter.

“There hasn’t been one moment in our marriage where I’ve thought about quitting my man,” Michelle said. “We’ve had some really hard times. We’ve had a lot of fun times, a lot of adventures, and I have become a better person because of the man I’m married to.”

“Don’t make me cry now,” Barack responded. “Don’t let me start tearing up now.”